The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. --I need a station for the train to stop at. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. Sign-up for email today! The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. What size Lionel transformer do I need? This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". This is why my wife loves me so. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Join Today! I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. . Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. Model train power falls into one of three categories. Can't plug into outlet? The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? Both are lighted. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. Price Received. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. This thing has more power then I will ever need. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. If you have a starter set and have had thoughts like this, youre not alone. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. "What size wire should I use?" Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. Why Sign In? It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. View More! Effort. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. They run on three rail track. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Been there, done that. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. what size lionel transformer do i need. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. no it isn't. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. Mark. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. That means there are lots of them. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. If you add a lot of track and find that your train slows down as it gets farther from your transformer, you will need to run jumper wires to the opposite side of your track layout. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. A. Price Received. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. Its a bargain at that price. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. Past,presentand future. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada!