"BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. brent metcalfe excommunicated. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). Youve used it well Brent. If so, what will be the subject? And great questions John. Thanks, John and Brent! Thanks for the clarification, Brent. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Billy Hibbard, for instance, who became a Methodist preacher, recounted: I thought how happy must Jesus Christ have been when he suffered for sinners. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. Wouldnt it have been more humorous to wait until *after* the issue was mailed out before bringing the Metcalfe is Butthead acrostic to the attention of FARMS authorities? But Brent seems to do just the opposite. I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. You sound like a delightful guy. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. Brent Metcalfe. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. 515-294-6532. Research into the origins or Christianity strongly suggest that there are no babies only bathwater. Joseph Smiths myth-making leveraged Christian myth-making at the dawn of higher criticism. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. by | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island Thank you both in advance. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. Thank you for this interview. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. 1. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. The Book of Abraham? We Elders thought this was powerful truth, to compliment the claims of the Book of Mormon, to convince the Jew and Gentile. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. The triplet Egyptian Alphabet manuscripts and the bound Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language also elaborate the Katumin narrative. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? I have question on the Book of Abraham. This is what led me here! Tom Phillips, Simon Southerton, Brent Metcalfe, Jeremy Runnells, Grant Palmer, etc. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Life changing! Quote: More recent studies conducted by Professor of Anthropology Richard B. Stamps, of the Michigan Historical Museum, indicate that the artifacts were made with contemporary tools. Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Our interview continues tonight!!! Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. When you described Hoffmans futile attempts to delay the inevitable meeting where his house of cards would come tumbling down I couldnt help but compare it to the decades-long quest among some of the church leadership to keep the brand pure by weeding out doubters. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Is there going to be a part 3? Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. I hope you consider doing this. Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Hope all is good with you. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? It was soul-crushing, Brent said. Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. Or if you have any thoughts on this John? God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. hendrick motorsports hats; brent metcalfe excommunicated I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. Now, alas, Im left to figure out why I dont personally do more to address the real-life hell that is meanwhile breaking loose in the world, now that I understand also that no gods exist to help us. I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. Wow John, what an interview. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. John, you asked for information about any of the Christensens. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Reply. What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. Is there going to be a part 3? Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Oh. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. Signature Books. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. Thank you John and Brent. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. I heard he had left the church soon after returning home. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. OMAHA, Neb. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Some people who study and read deeply can be more expert than others with advanced degrees. Perhaps it has something to do with the frightening and daunting implications of this inconvenient truth. The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . Notify me of follow-up comments by email. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. I., **My question is if Brent could provide a copy of the parallels between Elias Snow and Joseph Smith that Wilford Paulson (former BYU professor)inserted into the book. And you are an example. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. This was very similar to my experience. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. Great interview. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? St. Martins Press. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. These scholars included Dan Vogel, Stan Larson, David P. Wright, and John Kunich. Thanks to the both of you! I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. Do you still attend LDS church? And how many. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. Can you offer any insight to this? "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . And am I the only one who likes the older music better? Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? I was a writer for 7th East Press. In Gnosticism Abraham is not even a real person, the story represents the triumph of spirit over matter and is loaded with hidden symbolic meaning. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. He remains an enigma. Cookie Notice but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. After all, we are human! @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. What an amazing life Brent! I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. D&C 76:2021). What has Brent done to mitigate his ADD? Follow @BHMetcalf. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. We also talk about the concept of translation, Joseph Smiths views on his translations, the traditional apologetic responses concerning the Book of Abraham (Hugh Nibley, John Gee, and Kerry Muhlestein), as well as the LDS Churchs recent essay on the Book of Abraham. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Part 1 of the interview stuck much closer to home for me. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. Coming from similar backgrounds, Mark and Brent subsequently began working together on finding and authenticating documents, which eventually turned their relationship into a friendship. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. As soon as we can! Brents words deepened my own thoughts on God, spiritually and humanity. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed.